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yes, there is a case in point where boehner and obama said there was progress that could be made towards a compromise. the markets turn around to 220 points on the dow. but on 20 points and the dow having been down 110 closed up 106 points. that's because john boehner said they could well be some progress on a compromise. that flies in the face of harry reid saying little progress is made. that is what is driving the u.s. markets and the global markets as well. the fed's beige book says there is a tepid growth. you have the housing market against that manufacturing and superstorm sandy. interesting stats expected out of the auto sectors. this could be good news. we think there may ab a pace of somewhere in the region of 15.2 million cars sold in november. the fact is that americans got very old fleet of cars. the average age of car now is 11 years old. it's 20% of the cars on the road are 16 years old. maybe renewing the cars is a big factor. great numbers for abercrombie and fitch, the shares are up 15%. this is a very well received set of numbers. >> you mentioned the abercrombie stuff
yes, there is a case in point where boehner and obama said there was progress that could be made towards a compromise. the markets turn around to 220 points on the dow. but on 20 points and the dow having been down 110 closed up 106 points. that's because john boehner said they could well be some progress on a compromise. that flies in the face of harry reid saying little progress is made. that is what is driving the u.s. markets and the global markets as well. the fed's beige book says there...
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Dec 3, 2012
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deep in the obama boehner negotiations, they were talking about a proposal with 800 billion in revenue that would come through a somewhat tax reformed process. right now we're seeing the exact opposite. president obama is sticking firm with what he offered in his budget release, or at least in his opening bid and boehner is kind of chasing over obama with more or less compromised proposals saying, why won't you work with me, give more, sacrifice more? look, we're early here and most of the people i talk with in washington are saying we're not going to get deep into this until mid-december at least. if we do a process of kind of incrementally coming from in between the two proposals, you could very easily imagine between obama and boehner on tacks is $1.2 trillion. that's where they end up on mandatory spending, 750. that wouldn't be a shocker either. boehner's opening bid here is not the bid of the side in the stronger position. it's a side desperately trying to get the press to compromise. >> now, michelle whark we don't see in the counteroffer is extension of payroll tax cut, extensi
deep in the obama boehner negotiations, they were talking about a proposal with 800 billion in revenue that would come through a somewhat tax reformed process. right now we're seeing the exact opposite. president obama is sticking firm with what he offered in his budget release, or at least in his opening bid and boehner is kind of chasing over obama with more or less compromised proposals saying, why won't you work with me, give more, sacrifice more? look, we're early here and most of the...
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Dec 7, 2012
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. >>> casper, deep blue, bird, jordan, mcenroe, coners, boehner, obama. it is friday, december 7th, this is "now." >> joining me today, chief economic correspondent for politico ben white, editor at large for salon.com, joe walsh, queen bee and editing manager of the grio.com, and buzz fooeds.com ben smith. the labor department delivered a december surprise, which might just alter the debate over the fiscal cliff. despite predictions of stalled job creation in november in superstorm sandy and looming fiscal cliff, the nation added 146,000 jobs last month, and unemployment ticked down to 7.7%. while november's figures are higher than expected, september and october were revised down 16 and 33,000 jobs respectively. chief economists for moody's analytics mark zandi cautions november may see a downward revision but the numbers are a good sign. >> bottom line, feels like the job market is holding firm in the face of sandy and fiscal cliff concerns, so that's good news. >> surprising exactly no one, the white house and republicans had different spin on the num
. >>> casper, deep blue, bird, jordan, mcenroe, coners, boehner, obama. it is friday, december 7th, this is "now." >> joining me today, chief economic correspondent for politico ben white, editor at large for salon.com, joe walsh, queen bee and editing manager of the grio.com, and buzz fooeds.com ben smith. the labor department delivered a december surprise, which might just alter the debate over the fiscal cliff. despite predictions of stalled job creation in november...
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Dec 4, 2012
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at that point i wouldn't be surprised if president obama, john boehner, and other key folks are actually locked up somewhere in maybe camp david, maybe at the white house. that's when the big talks will start. not now but in the next couple of weeks. >> back to the power move as it's described by speaker boehner. who are the strongest allies. we've seen paul ryan all but vanish here other than when we put the picture up on the committee and who is on it. who are the allies supporting speaker boehner that are team players? >> there was a criticism in the suspicion about a year ago that even some of john boehner's top deputies weren't always on board. that came about during the debt ceiling debate of 2011 where there was a lot of suspicion where eric cantor the house majority leader was on the same page with house speaker john boehner. right now as we see it seems like the republican leadership is completely unified, and that does end up bolstering john boehner's ability to make a deal or enforce discipline with the party. >> very interesting. thank you very much. governors who met with th
at that point i wouldn't be surprised if president obama, john boehner, and other key folks are actually locked up somewhere in maybe camp david, maybe at the white house. that's when the big talks will start. not now but in the next couple of weeks. >> back to the power move as it's described by speaker boehner. who are the strongest allies. we've seen paul ryan all but vanish here other than when we put the picture up on the committee and who is on it. who are the allies supporting...
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Nov 29, 2012
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bain boehner is spinning his wheels. president obama could be pushing these guys all the way until the break. he reminded the country of the steaks stakes today. there was a sense of urgency in the president's message >>> if we get this part of it right, a lot of the other issues surrounding deficit reduction are going to be a whole lot easier. if we get this wrong, the economy is going to go south. we don't have a lot of time here. we have a few weeks to get this thing done. we could get it done tomorrow. optimistically, i don't think we are going to get it done tomorrow. >> the white house is using all social media resources to get the message out and put pressure on the republicans. >> today, i'm asking congress to listen to the people who sent us here to serve. i'm asking americans all across the country to make your voice heard. tell members of congress what a $2,000 tax hike would mean to you. call your members of congress, write them an e-mail, post it on their facebook walls. you can tweet it using the hash tag m
bain boehner is spinning his wheels. president obama could be pushing these guys all the way until the break. he reminded the country of the steaks stakes today. there was a sense of urgency in the president's message >>> if we get this part of it right, a lot of the other issues surrounding deficit reduction are going to be a whole lot easier. if we get this wrong, the economy is going to go south. we don't have a lot of time here. we have a few weeks to get this thing done. we could...
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Nov 30, 2012
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john boehner call this had a stalemate earlier today. president obama doesn't have any specific plans that the white house is reading out to talk to congressional leaders, but they say he will remain in contact with him in the coming days. >> kristen welker at the white house. thank you vyou very much. now to governor ed rendell. the optics of the president in the burbs is interesting. why did he choose the suburbs for this fight? >> these are traditional swing voter, voters who decide elections in pennsylvania. right now pennsylvania statewide elections are decided in the philadelphia suburbs. they're a decent demographic. not by any means poor people, but not rich people. they are the heart of the middle class, spexactly who the presidt is talking to. >> let's talk more about this proposal by the president. i want to just play a quick clip from harry reid from earlier in the week. here's what he had to say. >> remember we've already done more than a billion dollars worth of cuts. we've already done that. so we need to get credit for th
john boehner call this had a stalemate earlier today. president obama doesn't have any specific plans that the white house is reading out to talk to congressional leaders, but they say he will remain in contact with him in the coming days. >> kristen welker at the white house. thank you vyou very much. now to governor ed rendell. the optics of the president in the burbs is interesting. why did he choose the suburbs for this fight? >> these are traditional swing voter, voters who...
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Dec 3, 2012
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president obama has a clear message for speaker of the house john boehner. >> terrified of what you might say. your move, chief. >> the a.p. headline reads white house to gop, it's your move. it is a point treasure secretary timothy geithner made clear over and over and over again. >> we've laid out a very detailed plan of spending cuts, $600 billion in spending in mandatory programs over ten years. if they would like to go beyond that or do it differently they need to tell us what they propose and then tell us what makes sense to them. but what we can't do is try to figure out what makes sense for them. tell us what they like as a complement to that. we can't react to anything until we see doots he tails of a proposal. we can't figure out what they need. they have to tell us. >> house speaker john boehner isn't playing ball claiming the white house proposal is a joke. >> it's flabbergasted. you can't be serious. i've never seen anything like it. >> boehner insists that talks have broken down. >> right now i would say we're nowhere. period. we're nowhere. we've put a serious offer on the
president obama has a clear message for speaker of the house john boehner. >> terrified of what you might say. your move, chief. >> the a.p. headline reads white house to gop, it's your move. it is a point treasure secretary timothy geithner made clear over and over and over again. >> we've laid out a very detailed plan of spending cuts, $600 billion in spending in mandatory programs over ten years. if they would like to go beyond that or do it differently they need to tell us...
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i think john boehner has to go back to his members and say look, president obama won the election, polling suggests we republicans lose if we go over the cliff, and i got this one thing that's going to mitigate your unhappiness over the fact that we're moving up rates on the wealthiest americans. he needs the third part to sell the whole package. >> and david, there is a jobs report today which sort of mixed news for everyone. it's a good number, down to 7.7%, unemployment, 146,000 new jobs added but the downside is that fewer people were in the labor force a lot fewer, because people gave up on even trying. >> i think this is one of the more provocative questions and get to it on sunday, which is, are we too focused on the debt. are we not focused enough on what the government can be doing to try to spur job growth? beyond just -- >> there was a stimulus piece in the offer from the white house that was laughed at by the -- >> laughed at but could end up surviving. one of the things about the president's initial offer is it may have sent a bad signal to conservatives but it did have the ef
i think john boehner has to go back to his members and say look, president obama won the election, polling suggests we republicans lose if we go over the cliff, and i got this one thing that's going to mitigate your unhappiness over the fact that we're moving up rates on the wealthiest americans. he needs the third part to sell the whole package. >> and david, there is a jobs report today which sort of mixed news for everyone. it's a good number, down to 7.7%, unemployment, 146,000 new...
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bottom line, they're going to have to get together, john boehner and president obama and work this out together. that's the only way, craig. >> mike viqueira i love us when y you. >>> republicans want specific cuts laid out in exchange for tax increases. today's "wall street journal" features an interview with mitch mcconnell providing some fresh clearly on a plan that he would like to see emerge telling the paper that he'd agree to hire medicare premiums for the wealthy and increase in the medicare eligibility age and slowing costs of living increases for social security. let's dig in now with molly ball, national political reporter for "atlantic" and also lynn sweet, washington bureau chief of "chicago sun-times." ladies, good afternoon. >> hello to you. >> molly, senator dick durbin saying right here on tuesday on "morning joe" that he could see $400 billion, at least $400 billion in entitlement cuts. is that going to be as hard of a sell to the left as raising rates will be to the right? >> in a word, yes. there are a lot of democratic groups right now really pushing for no changes
bottom line, they're going to have to get together, john boehner and president obama and work this out together. that's the only way, craig. >> mike viqueira i love us when y you. >>> republicans want specific cuts laid out in exchange for tax increases. today's "wall street journal" features an interview with mitch mcconnell providing some fresh clearly on a plan that he would like to see emerge telling the paper that he'd agree to hire medicare premiums for the...
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according to "politico" house republican leaders recognize president obama holds the high cards and the public is likely to blame republicans if negotiations blow up and the new year begins with a fiscal disaster. the facts didn't stop speaker boehner from claiming the white house is holding up negotiations. >> majority leader and i just had a meeting with the treasury secretary. it was frank, and it was direct. i was hopeful we'd see a specific plan for cutting spending. >> the treasury secretary's proposal seems pretty specific. it even includes $400 billion in specific cuts. but john boehner sees something different. >> we know what the menu is. what we don't know is what the white house is willing to do to get serious about solving our debt crisis. >> so what is this all about? i mean, i guess john boehner has his own definition of specifics. according to the john boehner dictionary, specifics means, having all the attributes john boehner agrees with and nothing he doesn't like. keep in mind, this is the same boehner who said $38 billion in cuts was the largest real dollar spending
according to "politico" house republican leaders recognize president obama holds the high cards and the public is likely to blame republicans if negotiations blow up and the new year begins with a fiscal disaster. the facts didn't stop speaker boehner from claiming the white house is holding up negotiations. >> majority leader and i just had a meeting with the treasury secretary. it was frank, and it was direct. i was hopeful we'd see a specific plan for cutting spending....
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. >> let's listen to another thing grover said yesterday about president obama. >> it's the president who is threatening to raise taxes on the middle class if he doesn't stamp his feet and get his way. >> it's so funny to see somebody talk about someone else in full projection mode. >> right. >> that is grover. you know, stomping his feet and getting his way and he's pretending that the president debafs the way he does. >> that's been his entire path to power and he has gotten his way because not only has he stamped his feet to get his way but he's also threatened people. he's done that here by saying that the tea party 2 is going to dwarf tea party 1, that's sending out a message saying, if you support any revenue increases, if you go along with compromise, we're going to get you next time around in your primary. that's what this is all about. it's an intimidation to republicans thinking about actually trying to come to some sort of deal and move forward. >> let's listen to a prediction that lindsey graham made which i think i agree with. >> i think we're going over the cliff. it's p
. >> let's listen to another thing grover said yesterday about president obama. >> it's the president who is threatening to raise taxes on the middle class if he doesn't stamp his feet and get his way. >> it's so funny to see somebody talk about someone else in full projection mode. >> right. >> that is grover. you know, stomping his feet and getting his way and he's pretending that the president debafs the way he does. >> that's been his entire path to power...
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Nov 29, 2012
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i'm wondering if john boehner and barack obama got together, had their short conversation and say hey, why don't we characterize this as a curt, short, curt conversation. that will help you with your people. that will help -- didn't you love that? you know, we hear they talked, and they had a curt conversation. >> reporter: yeah. there is truth to that. >> exactly what both sides wanted to hear. >> reporter: no, there is truth to that. look, the white house is well aware that they can't -- you know, the one reason why there's not meetings here? that's bad for boehner. boehner can't be seen here on, quote, enemy territory cutting the deal. right? it has -- i mean, look. the semantics matter. you hate to admit that it does, but it does. and the settings matter. that's why you're not seeing a lot of meetings here. >> it does and there are a lot of republicans -- remember newt gingrich going over to the white house through the budget negotiations in the 1990s, and newt gingrich's own words getting his pockets picked by bill clinton. outnegotiated time and time again. so these things do ma
i'm wondering if john boehner and barack obama got together, had their short conversation and say hey, why don't we characterize this as a curt, short, curt conversation. that will help you with your people. that will help -- didn't you love that? you know, we hear they talked, and they had a curt conversation. >> reporter: yeah. there is truth to that. >> exactly what both sides wanted to hear. >> reporter: no, there is truth to that. look, the white house is well aware that...
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Dec 7, 2012
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i'll tell you what, norah, i'm encouraged to hear overnight that president obama and speaker boehner have decided they are going to sit down and try to negotiate this out quietly and confidentially. that's the way we used to do it. that's the way ronald reagan did it with tip o'new'neilwe o'neil. back in 1982 or '83. we had private meetings actually in the basement of my home in washington. nobody knew about them. we were free to give and take and put things on the table without fear that would be used politically against us. same thing for the democrats. that's what we need to get back to. we need something in the nature, norah, of a grand bargain, along the lines of the simpson bowles proposal, something that has everything on the table and that cuts spending and increases revenue. and we've got to do it. the country is in extraordinarily bad shape economically. >> secretary baker, do you believe that the republicans should be willing to concede on the question of raising the rates on the wealthy? >> i don't think they should be willing to concede on that any more than the democrat
i'll tell you what, norah, i'm encouraged to hear overnight that president obama and speaker boehner have decided they are going to sit down and try to negotiate this out quietly and confidentially. that's the way we used to do it. that's the way ronald reagan did it with tip o'new'neilwe o'neil. back in 1982 or '83. we had private meetings actually in the basement of my home in washington. nobody knew about them. we were free to give and take and put things on the table without fear that would...
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. >> a meeting or a phone call between john boehner and president obama, is that at all in the works? >> as far as we know, no. whether it's in the works, we could only hope, at this point we do not have any indication that it is scheduled right now. never mind the principles, we don't have any word that there has been communications between their staff at all. what's flying out of the public still appears to be flying out of private, which is not a lot. >> the members are going home for a nice long weekend. thanks very much for that. president obama isn't negotiating like we just heard. he's negotiating to raise the tax rates on the rich as a downpayment on a larger deal to come later as far as taxes are concerned and medicare is concerned. >> let's allow higher rates to go up for the top two percent, that includes all of you, yes. but not in anyway that's going to affect your spending, your lifestyles or the economy in any significant way. let's make sure that 98% of americans don't see a single dime in tax increases next year. 97% of small businesses don't see an increase in taxes
. >> a meeting or a phone call between john boehner and president obama, is that at all in the works? >> as far as we know, no. whether it's in the works, we could only hope, at this point we do not have any indication that it is scheduled right now. never mind the principles, we don't have any word that there has been communications between their staff at all. what's flying out of the public still appears to be flying out of private, which is not a lot. >> the members are...
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what does president obama think of speaker boehner's proposal to avert the fiscal cliff? >> unfortunately, the speaker's proposal right now is still out of balance. he talks about $800 billion worth of revenues but says he's going to do that by lowering rates. when you look at the math, it doesn't work. >> reporter: he won't agree to eliminate a tax deduction for contributions to charity. >> every hospital and university and nonfor profit agency across the country would find themselves on the verge of collapse. so that's not a realistic option. >> reporter: but the president didn't say all this to speaker boehner. he said it in an interview on bloomberg tv. the last time the two men spoke was almost a week ago. president obama is focused on the stalemate with congress over averting the fiscal cliff, but he's just not talking to house republicans about it. at the white house, he discussed the issue with a bipartisan group of governors. >> i know that the president wants a deal and he didn't try to handicap it. >> reporter: earlier this week, he told so-called middle class
what does president obama think of speaker boehner's proposal to avert the fiscal cliff? >> unfortunately, the speaker's proposal right now is still out of balance. he talks about $800 billion worth of revenues but says he's going to do that by lowering rates. when you look at the math, it doesn't work. >> reporter: he won't agree to eliminate a tax deduction for contributions to charity. >> every hospital and university and nonfor profit agency across the country would find...
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sometimes i feel bad for the speaker, speaker boehner. he's caught between the elected obama and the ufrn elected norquist crossfire. there's not a lot of room to maneuver in that space. tuesday we've got two big investor meetings. first there's dell world. dell world? i like kirby's fourth world. there's dell world. is the risk taken out of this one now? it's down so low. or does it even matter? deleveraged buyout as goldman hinted in its sell-buy research upgrade this week? second, there's a -- how many times can you tell us that monster drinks aren't any worse and may actually be better than a cup of joe from starbucks? let us count the ways that this analyst meeting slash lovefest, they will tell you that there's no better way to preserve your heart than to drink a taste of monster every morning. now, analysts will be plenty hopped up when they come out of this meeting because they'll be recommending this stock in high-speed fashion. next on wednesday we're going to get the results from joy global. here's the company that has the best
sometimes i feel bad for the speaker, speaker boehner. he's caught between the elected obama and the ufrn elected norquist crossfire. there's not a lot of room to maneuver in that space. tuesday we've got two big investor meetings. first there's dell world. dell world? i like kirby's fourth world. there's dell world. is the risk taken out of this one now? it's down so low. or does it even matter? deleveraged buyout as goldman hinted in its sell-buy research upgrade this week? second, there's a...
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Nov 30, 2012
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president obama is calling for $1.6 trillion in tax spikes. john boehner is telling him to get serious. >> with 32 days left, the two parties are trading insults with 90% of americans facing higher taxes next year. small business owners want answers. poppy harlow is talking to them. they are very nervous about this. >> very nervous and frustrated. they have no idea what is ahead. that uncertainty is the hard part. we went to new jersey to talk to owners of very different businesses that are equally frustrated that washington can't get it together. >> any company, any business did the method of accounting like the government, we would be in jail. >> you sound like you have had it. >> i have. here is the reservations. staffed 24 hours a day. >> reporter: he started the business back in 1984. today, he's got a staff of 75. 53 cars and one big question. >> i just want congress to tell me to come up with what the boundaries are so i know -- i know how to run my business, i know how to plan. >> reporter: he's laid off four employees in the last six
president obama is calling for $1.6 trillion in tax spikes. john boehner is telling him to get serious. >> with 32 days left, the two parties are trading insults with 90% of americans facing higher taxes next year. small business owners want answers. poppy harlow is talking to them. they are very nervous about this. >> very nervous and frustrated. they have no idea what is ahead. that uncertainty is the hard part. we went to new jersey to talk to owners of very different businesses...
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. >>> the house speaker, john boehner, says the ball is in president obama's court to prevent the so-called fiscal cliff. but is he hinting at new room for compromise on hiking taxes on america's richest? [ male announcer ] this december, remember -- ♪ you can stay in and like something... ♪ [ car alarm deactivates ] ♪ ...or you can get out there with your family and actually like something. ♪ the lexus december to remember sales event is on, offering some of our best values of the year. this is the pursuit of perfection. have led to an increase intands clinical depression. drug and alcohol abuse is up. and those dealing with grief don't have access to the professional help they need. when you see these issues, do you want to walk away or step up? with a degree in the field of counseling or psychology from capella university, you'll have the knowledge to make a difference in the lives of others. let's get started at capella.edu there's a health company that can help you stay that way. what's healthier than that? hurry in and try five succulent entrees, like our tender snow crab pair
. >>> the house speaker, john boehner, says the ball is in president obama's court to prevent the so-called fiscal cliff. but is he hinting at new room for compromise on hiking taxes on america's richest? [ male announcer ] this december, remember -- ♪ you can stay in and like something... ♪ [ car alarm deactivates ] ♪ ...or you can get out there with your family and actually like something. ♪ the lexus december to remember sales event is on, offering some of our best values of...
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. >> president obama spoke on the phone last night with the speaker of the house. neither the white house nor the office of john boehner is talking about that conversation. and officials say there's no immediate plan. tax hikes and deep spending cuts are set to kick in on the 1st of january. with 26 days left, the white house is telling federal agencies and the pentagon to get ready for massive cuts if they can't find an agreement. >> other big story this morning, a gun is found inside a student's locker in a fairfax county school. >> school officials say there was never any danger to the students or staff. melanie is live this morning with more. >> reporter: well, tony, students are settling in to their classes and continuing to monitor the situation to ensure the safety of staff and students. still neither they nor police have publically said what led to the student bringing the weapon to school. administrators were the ones who found the gun. investigators say there was an ammunition magazine in the weapon but didn't lead details about what led officials to that
. >> president obama spoke on the phone last night with the speaker of the house. neither the white house nor the office of john boehner is talking about that conversation. and officials say there's no immediate plan. tax hikes and deep spending cuts are set to kick in on the 1st of january. with 26 days left, the white house is telling federal agencies and the pentagon to get ready for massive cuts if they can't find an agreement. >> other big story this morning, a gun is found...
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having done that held off those initiatives, speaker boehner says democrats are slow walking the economy to a fiscal cliff, yet this is the same republican leadership that had the house in session barely a full day this week. we've had the election. the president was clear in the campaign that he was advocating and fighting for the middle income tax cut. a tax cut which, by the way, gives everyone 100% of taxpayers a tax break. but it also asks that the upper 2% pay their fair share. since that election four weeks ago, the president -- we've had time, the president has given the republicans flex tobblet come up with a credible specific plan. what they offered in return was an empty letter lacking in specifics. it was a further manifestation of the lack of agreement in the republican caucus with division on the middle income tax cut and no agreement on specifics in their plan, not even senator mcconnell endorsed the house republicans proposal. we can make a difference right now by bringing the middle income tax cut up for a vote to give once again, 100% of mernls a tax relief. the senate
having done that held off those initiatives, speaker boehner says democrats are slow walking the economy to a fiscal cliff, yet this is the same republican leadership that had the house in session barely a full day this week. we've had the election. the president was clear in the campaign that he was advocating and fighting for the middle income tax cut. a tax cut which, by the way, gives everyone 100% of taxpayers a tax break. but it also asks that the upper 2% pay their fair share. since that...
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john boehner is already ready for $800 billion of ip creancre tax revenue. calculating deductions, eliminating loopholes. are you with the speaker of the house on that? >> unfortunately, the policies of the president obama have already taken us over the cliff. if you meet with businesses like i do all the time, they already pared back plans and hiring for next year, anticipating what's going to happen. we can fix this christmas eve, if we want, but we've already hurt the economy and hurt job growth. >> are you with boehner? >> i am not with boehner. this government doesn't need any more money. this country needs less government. we are going to have historic levels of revenue to the government this year, but we've doubled spepding in the last ten years. >> everyone's taxes are going to go up at the end of the year if there's no deal. >> we have already offered to extend current tax rates. that's what we should have done six months ago until we could come to some agreement, some compromise on tax reform. >> when you say compromise, where are you ready to comp
john boehner is already ready for $800 billion of ip creancre tax revenue. calculating deductions, eliminating loopholes. are you with the speaker of the house on that? >> unfortunately, the policies of the president obama have already taken us over the cliff. if you meet with businesses like i do all the time, they already pared back plans and hiring for next year, anticipating what's going to happen. we can fix this christmas eve, if we want, but we've already hurt the economy and hurt...